Ok critters,
Trimester one is drawing to a close, and although we've already done those course evaluation forms I question how much weight those little circles hold. More often than not, the sight of a survey is often enough to reduce you to just ticking the middle box without even reading the question.
So, here we have a perfect forum for expressing our opinion on the education we are receiving. Post comments beneath this message about what you believe worked or didn't with any parts of our first trimester of second year. Let's be constructive, however rants are permitted. Post anonymously if you wish.
Just mull over it until our last test then let's hear it.
A discussion forum for the students at the school of Architecture and Design of VUW.
Hey I understand you can feel frustrated with the course, but let's try and be a little more constructive and try to initiate some form of discussion. Also I think it's best if we leave our lecturers and tutors out of the discussion. As potentially it can get out of control and feelings can get hurt. I think in an intelligent critique of the course assumptions can be made, without risking hurt feelings. Keep in mind that our lecturers are aware of this blog and comments as such can hurt our credibility.
ReplyDeleteI think Anonymous1 I raised a fair point, based on from what I've heard from the numerous disruptions of exams this morning to clarify or rectify errors in the exam and formula sheet.
ReplyDeleteI understand your point of view Anonymous2, but I think it's a fair call to draw attention to an issue which goes beyond 'the course'. The deliverers of our education comprise a great part of how we learn. And we do have some fantastic lecturers, so also let's give credit where credit's due. Having said that, I agree, I don't think lecturers/tutors should be the focus of this discussion.
On a completely different note from the previous comments, I have been talking to several people about the amount of work that is needed for the courses that we do and the amount of time we have to do them in. The degree that we are doing now used to be 7 years long and has been reduced to 5 and yet it seems like we have to learn the same amount as before. It seems to me that this infringes on our ability to experiment and fully explore the ideas we come up with (in our design based papers especially). Thoughts?
ReplyDeleteThat's interesting, didn't know that this degree used to be seven years. One does have to question whether we are still getting the same standard of education. I thing what particularly worries me is the amount that was cut out of the structures course. In studying for the exam it's pretty apparent that a good chunk of the course was taken out. Now while I'm all for an easier workload, I'm just wondering if we will make up for the stuff cut out. Also what will we be missing out on in 300 structures? Kind of worries me that structures would take such a cut. In Japan to study architecture one must complete a whole degree in structural engineering first.
ReplyDeleteI don't know where the 7 years bit comes from, its always been 5 years of study to satisfy the registration boards minimum requirements. The extra 2 probably comes from people doing a cheeky masters to look good on a CV and actually get a job at the end of it. Reality bites.
ReplyDeleteRe Structures, sure we missed out on some stuff, but for the me the workload was about right. At this level its really only a primer anyway. If you understand the basics then we should be alright next year, anyway, how many third years have forgotten what they learnt last year!? You do what you need to pass and move on.
Let's face it, it is up to educate ourselves anyway. What instruction are we really getting in design? I feel I didn't really get my money's worth on that course but then I didn't really push for my moneys worth as I see the design papers as being low down my list of subjects I feel it is important to put my time in to. I believe everybody pretty much knows how to research precedents, read some books, do some inspirational research, mess around with ideas and come up with something. What else is there to design?...
I thought history and construction were spot on. The blogs and sig report weren't too painful to do. Where they? But hey, I love history so I put the time and effort in there.
Construction projects were great and the lectures taught us some stuff we need to know. I can't work out whether the test was too easy or that I just know my stuff from the lectures. Little bit of both maybe?
Alex: it was never 7 years, spennie's right. People who have done their MArch previous to this year have done an additional 2 years of research-based projects. They've just changed the name of our degree to an BAs and MArch to align it with other degrees.
ReplyDeleteSpennie: You don't think design is important? Or just in terms of time allocation? From the way you describe the process, it sounds a little like you think the design paper lacks substance.
Amanda,
ReplyDeleteI think design is important for the process and the end result, but if they set the project and we never had any time with a tutor, only our peers would the end result be that different? Maybe its just me. The first year I think we definitely needed whatever time we could get, and the irony is with more people on the course we probably had more of it. I don't think 20 allocated minutes a week over 12 weeks with a tutor is enough. What about some organised tutorials on sketching or illustrator or photoshop or model making etc, even if it is on my own time, ie Wednesdays. 211 just seemed a little bit too relaxed and easy going.
Design is far too abstract for my liking. I fully understand that design is all about process and a little about the finished project. However I think the briefs are so abstract in design that it limits the amount of other valuable experience we could have. In design especially with this project you have way too much freedom to set your own parameters and argue your way out of any mess. Of course too many rules and it could get boring, who knows.
ReplyDeleteI look at construction and our experience with modeling and construction detailing. In many ways that was a process paper too. You look at your drawings and you come across a connection that doesn't quite work in the model so you have to problem solve and redesign. Then perhaps this new design doesn't look aesthetically pleasing so you have to figure out a way that works. In such a way you are involved in problem solving and process while at the same time are gaining experience in modeling and far more insight into the built environment.
We aren't entering the utopia of the 90's. We don't have the luxury to be pushing social and theoretical boundaries, we need to be practical and experienced to enter the workforce.
@Spennie: had a late reply to the previous post about transition towns don't think you saw it, but I would definitely be keen to come check out a meeting.
211 was relaxed and easygoing, and I think we had way too much time per project than was necessary - particularly for my method of working. I did feel like tutorials were worthwhile from the discussions we had, but I feel the same in that I doubt they actually affected the end result of my projects.
ReplyDeleteAnd yep, I think design at this level is as much about communicating your ideas as the ideas themselves so some tutorials on communication skills would have definitely been beneficial to me also.
In terms of construction, I think the disparity in levels of experience was an issue. For someone completely fresh to the construction world, I felt at a massive disadvantage to those who had been on building sites or draftspeople or whatever, and though the lectures were interesting and worthwhile in their own right, I felt like they didn't address problems or issues which were coming up in the projects. In the tutorials I got a max of ten minutes with my tutor which was basically only enough time for her to tell me where I was going wrong. I learnt a lot in that paper, but really felt like I could have learnt it better and with less frustration.
Eric, I agree with you on how our design briefs were far too open ended to really address many real world considerations. A lot of the time I felt my designs were too boring and that I should just go wild without a care for any of the forces that affect buildings in reality. When I did go wild ie. cutting up some pieces of ply and hinging them together, then creating a bullshit story as to how it was a continuation of my previous process, I got a lot more positive feedback.
ReplyDeleteIt was as though, as long as I had beautiful images/models and a good backup story I could do anything I wanted.
This has made me wonder, what is the difference between last trimesters design course and a marketing/graphic design paper? The aim of the assignments seemed to be about creating beautiful images that conveyed a 'well thought over' concept rather than working to solve issues in ergonomics, sustainability or real life scenarios.
Although it is important to be creative and explore different methods of working I think that in terms of learning design strategies, this course didn't help me much. On the other hand, I've become much better at photoshop, photography and model making.
Arci221 seemed to me to be more about representation of design rather than actual design.
Do you guys agree?
Amanda, I agree 221 seemed to be two separate courses. The information packed 2 hour material lectures and then the 20 minute with tutor construction class. I think that these two were poorly integrated.
ReplyDeleteI too have very limited construction knowledge and as such was a bit gimped from the start. I also feel I could have as such learned a whole lot more. In my previous response I am not saying construction was great. I am a little annoyed with the shear volume of information that we had to sift through to be prepared for an exam that had little to do with most of it. What I am trying to say is that I think process papers (ie. Design) could be taught with more realistic constraints. As such we would not only come out with a design and a whole bunch of pretty pictures, but some knowledge of how a building actually would be put together.
In the same way that I felt that communication and design could have been blended together last year( instead of presenting meaningless images of cubes one would have some motive to present one's observatory/swimming pool in a more meaningful way) I think design and construction could have been blended.
I don't think it would bother me so much if the course objective for design read along the lines, " Process paper in which one invests an immeasurable amount of time into an idea or philosophy that does not exactly represent ones own beliefs but just may consist of enough bullshit to instead satisfy critics desire for some sort of duck or decorated shed." You know something that COMMUNICATES.
Anonmous2, are you Michael Dudding?
ReplyDeleteDesign: very much enjoyed. Had an excellent tutor and felt like I got a lot of things out of the course. Frankly, I disagree with most of the critique surrounding this paper - I think you might be missing the point. Firstly, design at this stage is not about making beautiful images or models, it is about exploring ideas and the work you produce should reflect that. I think one of the most important things about an architectural education is exploring abstract ideas that can never be built, or perhaps, have nothing to do with buildings whatsoever. If it looks nice as well, hey, bonus. Secondly, it was a very laissez-faire paper. However, final year won't be much different, so perhaps look at this as an opportunity to push your ideas and explore new things. Finally, I felt like I gained a heap of valuable feedback from my tutor regarding the work I had put into this course. Often I would look at other people in my group who didn't seem to get as much, and it was usually because they bought nothing to the table in studios, or weren't actively trying to push things when they did. And if you think instruction in design is unnecessary, then I think you're probably asking the wrong questions.
Structures: Disappointing. Can't say more than that, and I think everyone else feels the same way. Massive chunks cut out of the course, inconsistent grades, revision sheets that were often impossible to follow (not to mention wrong), admissions that assignments were rushed through marking and had not even been read, and changes to the exam, during the exam, are simply not on however you look at it.
Construction: Had a terrible tutor and an average group. I didn't like how so much of the course seemed to come down to group work - it seemed as if no matter what you did, the success or failure of your work would rest on the shoulders of other people. In addition to this, I agree with what Amanda says - it seemed ridiculous to 'get creative' when most of us had never seen a detail before. Surely it's more important to learn the fundamentals of everything, and how to do it all properly, before we start detailing and modeling 'creatively'? The things we learned during the lectures were great though, and Guy Marriage is an excellent teacher.
History: There seemed to be a massive disconnection between the way the assignments were weighted and the actual course content. I felt like the report was given too much emphasis - I think it would have been much better to do several essays over the course of the paper, focusing on issues and material covered in the course. In addition to that, I felt that the blogs often led to overwrought and pseudo-intellectual writing - the lecturer seemed to have a fascination with endless meditation and reflection, and I don't think encouraging this kind of ponderous and earnest thinking is the way to go in shaping our views as designers. We are only second year students, after all.
All in all it was about five times better than the whole of first year.
I think it is possible to talk about lecturers and tutors with out making it too personal but it is bit of pointless talking about education we are receiving without mentioning them
ReplyDeleteFor me there are two main issues learning and grading. A big problem with first is the lack of tutoring. I see this as a combination of student/tutor ratio (construction 1/25 for two hours one day a week), structure of some papers (history being all online) quality of tutors (I had a shocker last year, this year has been better at least luckily for me, but I did notice some very poor calls in construction by others, it sounded like some tutors main qualification for tutoring that paper was passing it a couple of years ago) and some tutors going MIA (comments on history blogs seamed to stop after a couple of weeks).
It appeared to me that for history, structures and construction tutors main role was marking not educating. If that is the case and the defence is that it’s all about self and peer educating with a few lectures then
a. where is all my money going and
b. the second issue grading is even more important
Firstly I appreciate that grading isn’t an easily job and would not want to do it myself. But these marks are very important for masters and for when we leave big red, it would be nice if they reflect what we know. There does seam to be some big discrepancies in grading. Structures has been criticised allot this semester, the incidents in the exam were a joke but not a very funny one if it means you stuffed up that question. There were a lot of points in that paper I thought were wrong and brought to Geoff’s attention but since it is the same paper that get reused every year I wouldn’t hold my breath in him fixing it. It is the paper that I thought would be the easiest to mark thus it should be the most accurate at grading, maths is either right or wrong, yes? But it’s not necessarily the case, it is also the easiest to compare and prove discrepancies. If you could somehow compare all the papers in a similar way you would most likely see equal discrepancies.
First Anonymous you say "I think one of the most important things about an architectural education is exploring abstract ideas that can never be built, or perhaps, have nothing to do with buildings whatsoever." Just curious as to why you find that important?
ReplyDeleteAlso you argue that design is about exploration of ideas. Yet you criticize history for "endless meditation and reflection". If ever there were a similarity between design and history it would be "endless meditation and reflection". In design of course we endlessly meditate and reflect through iterations of an idea.
I think you are right to criticize Michael Dudding for forcing his "narrative" on us, though I think he did a good job staying objective(given the discussion material on hand). Also why do you dislike "ponderous and earnest" thinking? Is there a difference to you between that and critical thinking?
Anonymous 2, great points
I think tutor ratio and quality all come down to funding, and let's face it after the latest budget it will be a long time till this will improve. Nothing really to do but make frustrations known, and vote.
This is a university and there should be consistency in the way our assignments are marked. If not then the assignment or the people marking need to change.
Still wondering where our blog tutors went as well.
Anonymous3(?) - no, I don't do anonimity...
ReplyDeleteYou make some interesting points though, and I would have enjoyed them being presented as part of assignment 2...
With regards to the disconnect between course lecture content and assignment content - that is intentional, and recognises the fact that university students have a responsibility to facilitate their own learning. So, while the lecture material attempted to present the main historical threads by which architectural history is known, assignment 1 sought students to activate aspects of that knowledge in a specific setting (while also learning the basics of historical research). A lot of projects failed to make that link however, and that is perhaps because I was not insistent enough about it??
Nevertheless, I am currently thinking about what the main assignment would be for next year, so constructive ideas would be very welcome. I would love to have a series of smaller essays, as you suggest, but the realities of a 15point paper, and the School's requirement that we have no more than 2 assignments kind of puts that one to rest.
With regards to the failure of tutors - I couldn't agree more and was very disappointed (in my own course) - I need to think of some ways to monitor this better, to ensure that their input is consistent - or else dispense with it completely (were their comments actually helpful?). My ideal is of course, face-to-face group discussions - but again, this isn't an option available to me...
Finally - overwrought and pseudo-intellectual - that's a fairly ungenerous comment to make about the work that was presented by you and your classmates, but each to their own. I'm not sure why earnest thinking shouldn't be part of design (and why you shouldn't try to develop critical thinking skills as early as possible), and am very interested in your view that it shouldn't be. Given that most architectural commentators slam the superficial and the banal... at point does thinking below the surface of something become too ponderous...??
m-d
PS - I have no problem with staff names being part of this discussion (although I can only speak for myself on that matter) - and even value what I might learn from the flow of the discussion...
ReplyDeletem-d
PPS - just tell me to butt out if you wish to keep this as a student only forum :)
ReplyDeletem-d
I thought the history course seemed to hinge a little too much on the main assignment as well. However, in a way it's good to know that it's just the bureaucracy getting you down, m-d. A series of smaller essays would be great, I think. In fact, what would be really ideal, would be if the journal articles were the main focus of the course, but if they were presented as a series of essays instead of weblogs, which people perhaps took a little too casually. I think what the third anon guy is saying is that because the assignment was presented as 'reflective' perhaps it lacked the intellectual rigour of say, an essay. I don't know.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with what everyone is saying about the grades, tutors, and structures particularly. That kind of thing is pretty disappointing when you put in the work. Grades do matter, and it's frustrating when they don't correlate with the time you put in, because you don't understand the requirements, rather than not understanding the material.
And m-d, are you saying that the university does not allow tutorials for a history paper? Seriously?
m-d you're most welcome here.
ReplyDeleteAs are other spectators... lecturers, older students, graduates, anyone with an interest in the school.
It's nice to know you're keeping an eye on it all.
Keep it coming everybody.
I am hopefully going to have a chat with Chris McDonald who appears to be the supervisor for 2nd year, I have my own concerns which may be different to others (I was anonymous http://archcritters.blogspot.com/2010/06/trimester-1-2010-verdict.html?showComment=1277252718501#c8868802860220454560 ) if any one wants me to bring up something or join me feel free ask, I hopefully will know day and time tomorrow
ReplyDeleteIts interesting reading opinions much similar to my personal reactions to the papers this semester. one comment to add is independence is nice although expectancy of funding should be consistent throughout all course papers, im assuming funding is the main issue as to why there are no tutors supplied for some courses. For example no direct tutor classes for history. I think this is wrong as these papers are CORE, arnt core meaning they would be all eqaul?
ReplyDeleteso why arent our lecturers recieving eqaul tutor hours? for example why is history given no tutorial time bar bb?
Its funny as our fees increase our support decreases, we are encouraged to learn more independently, so were exactly are our fees going?
hmmmm just something to pondor.
I have been told that if there are lectures then there is less tutoring time, thus design is the only paper that had decent amount of tutoring
ReplyDeletem-d Thanks you for being involved.
ReplyDeleteCan you forward this link to others who might want to partake.
Amanda and myself believe that each blog exercise should be completed by everyone within the same week. This would allow people to comment all at the same time. This would mean the tutors would make a effort on friday to spend 2 hours at school maybe in a group commenting on all entries. Maybe the personal blogs should be less formal and the exercise more formal.
Also as you know a better platform to follow blogs and comment.
Assignment 1 taught me a lot about researching and how to find information. I thought everything we needed would be in the library or on the net but there is so much more out there.
Maybe the tutors could also be available to help us with assignment 1 if need be.
What does everyone think?
I think with the blogs if we were in smaller groups and less people wrote each week. Say groups of 12 and each week 4 people write each answering a different question but on the same subject the rest comment (preferably in a round table face top face situation). That means we would write only 1 full blog every 3 weeks and there would be only 4 blogs per subject for people to read and comment on not 30 odd, hopefully making discussions more focussed and in depth
ReplyDeleteI used google reader to follow that was alright, but still a pain to use blackboard to post. I understand blackboard are already looking to upgrade the the blog part of their platform
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJohn, I like your idea. Not only will the blog posts be of far greater quality(assuming students make use of the time), but I think the more people commenting on a post the better. With the assignment I felt the discussion generated by posts were of far greater value then the actual posts.
ReplyDeleteAlso M-D can you please bring back the academic essay? The template was far too rigid for such a critically engaging course. Developing a thesis is much more fun.
On an unrelated note- is possible with the code to get an edit post button?
John - Re:Meeting with Chris, I am actually the Second Year Coordinator, so would be happy to discuss these issues with you (or anyone) - certainly, student reps (nor anyone else) has made me aware of these sorts of issues, so I would welcome a more formal approach...
ReplyDeleteHowever, Chris is the BAS Programme Coordinator, and is actually involved in decision making processes of the level you are engaging with here (I am not). That is to say, it is wholly appropriate that this discussion is with Chris, although I could be present if you saw any value in that... Good luck anyway...
Re:weblogs, I have been thinking along similar lines - whereby everyone still does their posts (there is still a lot of value in that), but the tutor selects 1-3 posts (the best/most intriguing ones obviously) to bring over into the discussion forum. This would offer a number of advantages:
1. tutors would have to be more engaged
2. the discussion forum allows you to be notified wrt to new comments (I think)
3. Each individual student's contribution to the discussion would be based on their own critical engagement with the topic (which might not occur if they had not created a reflective post on the topic themself)
4. From a marking point of view, it would be a lot easier to track individual student participation (Bb can do this for you in the discussion forum - but not the journal function)
5. And most importantly, a more inclusive and engaged discussion would be possible...
E.Bliss - The main assignment needs to change because I ran an almost identical one for SARC151 this year. Although I am strongly leaning toward it, I do have some hesitance about the academic essay, because in my experience, no matter how much you try to communicate what it is that needs to be addressed, many students will miss the mark (in terms of demonstrating that they have met the learning objectives). Certainly this is less of an issue (although it still exists) in higher years. So for me, it is a balancing act between trying to get as many students as possible to meet course objectives, and standing back and letting students have more control over that process (which is kind of where I was going with the contrast between report and blogging).
To be fair also, report writing skills are going to be far more useful to you all in your professional lives than academic essay writing (for better or worse)...
Templated reports are also much easier to grade consistently than are academic essays (although that was not my prime consideration).
Anyway - thanks for all the thoughtful feedback...
m-d
Michael has just alerted me to this blog as well, so have just started to read it today. Good to hear some comments about what needs to be improved in Construction. I'll see what I can do for next year.
ReplyDeleteIn the 221 Construction course, what I am meant to teach you is all about materials, and the basics of construction processes, around a small timber building, both inside and outside.
In a perfect world, you would have all the lectures first on materials, and then spend a long time on designing a project, and only then would you all start to look at how you might use your new-found construction knowledge to put them together.
Unfortunately its all a bit more mashed together than that - and yes, this year I did throw you all in the deep end with asking you to be creative in your construction, when you hadn't learnt the basics yet. I've pushed you all pretty far - possibly more than you wanted.
So saying though, the work I've seen coming out of the 2nd year students is the best ever. I mean that - I've been teaching this paper for 9 years now - crikey! and this result is the best we've ever had in terms of student output.
So : was it wrong to push you like that?
Spence - "Construction projects were great and the lectures taught us some stuff we need to know. I can't work out whether the test was too easy or that I just know my stuff from the lectures. Little bit of both maybe?"
ReplyDeleteGuy says: you're right, it was way too easy (there are lots of A marks coming out. I'll be sure to make it harder next year....
Oops - an error in my last comment - student rep/s have NOT approached me wrt these issues - but I am in the process of arranging such a meeting as we speak. It might be a good idea for you to get together with your rep and discuss these issues as a group before the meeting takes place...
ReplyDeleteCheers'
m-d
Eric - "I too have very limited construction knowledge and as such was a bit gimped from the start. I also feel I could have as such learned a whole lot more. In my previous response I am not saying construction was great. I am a little annoyed with the shear volume of information that we had to sift through to be prepared for an exam that had little to do with most of it."
ReplyDelete- yes, fair comment, and I too was annoyed at the sheer volume of info - I promise to somehow edit it down for next year.
and last comment from me for a while, - i've got to get back to my admin / marking - but a serious point raised by Crosby:
ReplyDelete"In terms of construction, I think the disparity in levels of experience was an issue. For someone completely fresh to the construction world, I felt at a massive disadvantage to those who had been on building sites or draftspeople or whatever, and though the lectures were interesting and worthwhile in their own right, I felt like they didn't address problems or issues which were coming up in the projects. In the tutorials I got a max of ten minutes with my tutor which was basically only enough time for her to tell me where I was going wrong. I learnt a lot in that paper, but really felt like I could have learnt it better and with less frustration."
Excellent really useful comment that hits the nail on the head (so to speak, in a constructionny kind of way...) - suggestions welcome on how I can get round that in future....
It's unrealistic to expect your tutor to OK your every decision, so during the construction project, most of the time I was wishing "man if only I had [insert name of knowledgeable person here] in my group". Just to save you from an obvious mistake or point out a simpler solution.
ReplyDeleteEven if right at the beginning of the year you did a quiz to gauge the existing knowledge of the students, and then dispersed the smart ones amongst the groups so that the knowledge would be evenly spread.
Either more balanced groups or extra credit for student helpers?
I'm thinking that maybe part of the lecture time could be used to discuss issues with the project? I tried that but didn't get many questions during the lectures - I would love to have a conversation about how / why to build something a certain way (there is no definite ONE right way, but there are definitely several wrong ways) - but is the lecture format too intimidating?
ReplyDeleteWould the lectures be better as 2 x 1 hr lectures rather than 1 x 2hr lecture?
This class comes in with a range of abilities and backgrounds. This makes it difficult to know an appropriate level to pitch it at, and whatever the evlel chosen some will find it too fast and others too slow. This was apaprent in the informal survey I did earlier in the year.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry there were mistakes in the exam, however these things happen.
As for topics being cut from the course this is a result of the amount of time on structures being reduced in the degrees, something I disagree with. If you feel that the amount of structures is not sufficient to cover the breadth of material, you need to discuss this with the respective programme directors.
Assessment in any subject is not 100% accurate and it is difficult to objectively compare ones own work with that of others. It may be more appropriate to save any criticism of assessment until after you get your grades. From what I have seen so far this class has performed very well overall.
I am dissapointed that no one had approached me with concerns during the course, or took the opportunity to make cosntructive comments in the informal survey you did just after mid-term break. It would then have been possible to address some of these for this year had I been aware of them.
For myself I found this years class to be one of the most engaged I have ever had with a good attitude.
yes personally the 2 hour lectures where good in the sense of being able to hit a topic in one go, but realistically you can normally only take in half of what is being said, as you are recieving alot of information. If you where to split the lectures up it will give a chance to absorb the information. or if you where to keep 2hour lectures - The way in which u approached the masonary lecture by having an intermission halfway through by asking us questions as to how we could calculate a particular section, this enabled us to engage with each other allowing us to think about what we had been taught throughout the hour. This 5 to 10 minute break from listing to doing enabled students to absorb the information at a higher rate.
ReplyDeleteMaybe more exercises like this throughout all mediums, question time or a general recap/break could be taken into consediration
Guy, yeah I think 2 x 1 hour lectures would be better. Doubles the amount of opportunities we have to speak with you, makes the topics more digestable, and then you have the flexibility to turn a whole session into a tutorial/Q&A sesh/site visit. Bummer we didn't get to go on one. Take us to the pumpkins?
ReplyDeleteGeoff, thanks for getting on board. I think the issue isn't the difficulty of material - we all got to grasps with BMD's eventually, but a lot of people got caught up in the frustration of inconsistencies.
If I remember rightly there weren't a whole lot of people in the class when we did the midterm review things, which is unfortunate, but I do know of people who have come to talk to you individually albeit probably just concerned with their own grades rather than the course as a whole.
Once it's decided exactly what material is covered by the course, if you and a tutor teamed up to straighten out those tutorial answers and formula sheets so that we had good solid resources to study against that would definitely be a start..
I couldn't get the thing to accept my name but I'm Hatty :)
ReplyDeleteAs student rep I am going to be meeting with Michael Dudding to discuss these issues as he has said in a previous comment. I am also going to be meeting with various other staff including our lecturers and other staff higher up in the system. I have read through all the comments here and have also talked to many other students about things they want to be changed or altered. If anyone has anything else they want to contact me about or would like me to pass on so they can remain anonymous please let me know... I am happy to try and sort out as many of these problems as possible.
Hope you are all enjoying the well deserved break!!
Geoff i believe that the course was not to hard but more so the way it was taught to us in lectures and tutorials made it hard to understanding of the subject matter.
ReplyDeleteAfter the whole year I finial got my head around the material taught and was able to sit the test with a little confidence.
I believe all courses can be taught so everyone can understand the material after each lecture and tutorial session.
Maybe more real life examples of how to apply the formulas this would give us a greater understand of why we test for this or that.
e.g. If the object of the course segment is to learn how to designing a beam, start by explaining each check system and how and why we would check for them.
This would allow us as students to see the whole picture and application of each formular.
The feeback form was given to us only after the completion of one assignment and a mid term test. We were unable to give the necessary feedback needed for the last two assignments and end of year test.
ASSIGNMENTS
I felt and I believe others also felt that we did not have any gauge of what was expected or what we were being marked on. The feedback from each assignment didn't give any indication of where we went wrong or how we could improved. In the last assignment our paper was graded based on a tick sheet we had never seen and many of these objectives were not indicated in the assignment outline.
I believe that the assignments doesn't give a clear understanding of how well we knew the subject matter but instead it felt like a hit and miss, were we answered all the questions and filled in all the necessary diagrams but still did not achieve the grade deserved. I would like to see some unified grading system so as we know what is expected and can but full effort in and receive a full grade. I believe its not like we got the material wrong necessarily but just missed out information which we didn't know we had to included.
STUDY MATERIAL
In regards to study material, there is much inconsistency in much of the examples. This makes it very difficult to study and to understand the subject matter. Is there a text book we could follow or could refer to? This could help us (less gifted) work a little harder to understand the subject matter.
In regards to us approaching you earlier, we never really know if our learning difficulty is just because we personally find it hard or if it is just the way in which it is taught until the course is nearing at its end.
What I would like is for it to change to help the course develop in to an enjoyable and rich experience which can lead to further endeavors in this subject.
Final note this is not a personal attack this is just my experiences in the course and I just want to help make it an enjoyable course not an frustrating and confusing journey.
OUR GRADES
Grades are important to all of us as we are all competing for masters program and/or OE exchange which need high averages. More importantly is our learning and an important part of learning is to understand were we go wrong. So it would be helpful to have more feedback on how to improve.
Please if others want to add on ways to improve the course for next time.
perhaps a pointless rant.
ReplyDeletealthough i was not in this class, its great to see some really constructive conversation going on. thanks to all who started this. i think it will become a really helpful tool for students in any year to state their thoughts on their respective courses.
in regard to geoff's and md's comments about people telling lecturers throughout the course about issues etc. it seems already from the sensible points raised in this blog that students will feel a lot more comfortable about approaching these points through this medium rather than speaking in lectures or reviews.
to guy and you other lads, thanks for getting on board, could you please encourage other lectures to follow suit, being in third year it would be nice to discuss points from our course.
hello, its me again - and good helpful feedback from Jae and oli.
ReplyDeleteThe subject of textbooks is a good one - we (the Arch School) don't really have may set text books (B Com etc have to buy several I believe) - but are thinking of setting some mandatory text books next year. For instance, in Construction, the Branz book could be made mandatory (about half the class bought a copy this year) but that does involve extra expense for you. I think (and hope) it was useful for those that did get it - its not really the sort of text book you would sell on at the end of the year, but hopefully one that you would keep with you even into practice.
Same thing for text books for other courses - I have been discussing with Nigel Isaacs if there is a suitable text book we should expect students to buy for his courses (books with lots of pictures and few words tend to be $$$ and let tell you little) and also discussing with Geoff if there is one book that would explain calcs etc in step by step worked examples. Of course, one easy solution may be to make sure that you go to the tutorials - it is the same every year, in that the students who do poorly are the ones that did not bother to turn up to the tutes.
There has also been a bit of discussion on the 221 BB site, if you haven't checked that out, then do so. But this site is easier to access - and of course, easier for the entire world to see, not just students on the course.
some commentary on the comments from the class rep, that i have been copied into:
ReplyDelete"The end of year exam was a little ridiculous! Some of the main topics such as plastic didn’t even feature in the exam while others things that had hardly been touched on made up a large proportion of the questions. Every question was worth one mark even though some required 10 times the amount of work. It was all very exciting having it online, but I don’t think it was really the best way of doing it. The online test meant that students didn’t have the opportunity to really show their knowledge or skill, and with it being multi-choice some students will have been marked incorrect when there answer is actually just as valid and the so-called correct answer. As long as the test has also been marked by a human as well as the computer then this issue should be solved."
You will hopefully be pleased to know that I am marking each test to check off those points as well, and as long as I am counted as a human, then your concern should be allayed (not alloyed, however, which as you will all know, is like: an alloy of copper and zinc make brass....).
M-D all fair points. Also want to point out that I enjoyed the courses this trimester, just a lot easier to talk about things that could use improving.
ReplyDeleteGuy- Quite embarrassed that you quoted that poorly articulated sentence. I found some lectures particularly long like the plastics lecture, which I think you already commented on in Blackboard. As A. Crosby suggested I think 2x1 hour lectures would be great. Also quite like the idea of mini-tests as was suggested on Blackboard. Solar Decathlon aspect of course was great experience.
I didn't have really that many issues with structures. Though am a little concerned with the stuff that was cut out of the course, (and I understand that it is not something you control Geoff).
Design- I felt there was too much time spent on the exploration assignment and I think the second assignment could have used a little longer. Also I think I actually would prefer to not have the extension after the crit. Enjoyed the freedom we had though and had a good tutor as well.
And this issue is more serious:
ReplyDelete"The group work. While this worked great for the students have had 4 architecture students in their group, it didn’t work so well for people that had 3 interior students and 1 architecture student. Although Guy kept saying that group work was only a small part of the mark, the group governed the mark as the work all had to link together. IT seems stupid that you can get marked down for someone in your group not doing something correctly when it had nothing to do with you. There was also issues around students copying the work of others in their group. Although it is hard to prove who did it first those students that did all the work should have got some credit for it! We realise it’s a hard issue to work around but a lot of students were very unhappy about the outcomes."
Good points, but hard to resolve. Last year we had 120 students, all of whom made an individual model of a house at 1:20 - there was a fantastic amount of learning, but it can be argued that there was also a lot of repetitive work. I wanted this year to see if we could do less unneccessary work, but collectively learn more.
I'm reasonably confident that doing 45 models better has produced a better result than 180 models individually would have done. The students who didn't know much at the start, seem to have learned / taken on a huge amount. Nearly all the groups had 2 Arch, 1 BBsc, 1 Interior student, but there were some clashes at the start that meant some groups were a bit mismatched - but it is hard to tell which teams they are now - most of the models are pretty good. All in all, a massive improvement from assignment 1, which I think you will find has been reflected in the marks... when they come out... sooon....
Construction. I think the group work aspect was most valuable and should be acknowledged. Developing the strategy of how you work with people who are slack, don't know what they are doing or 'borrow' your work is something everyone needs to do. In my experience the first two are guaranteed, regardless of the profession. Might as well get used to it. The last one hopefully less so, however imitation is the best form of flattery...
ReplyDeleteI can't understand the complaints about the test, I don't think they can be representative of the class. To call it ridiculous is a bit much, sounds like they choked on the test and how can you ever accommodate that? What I think may have caught people out was not knowing what to expect. Having an online test like that every couple of weeks or at mid term would be great as it forces people to engage with the material as it is being presented, then when being tested at the end of the trimester there shouldn't be any shocks.
Yeah, I don't think nitpicking about questions marking weights is necessarily productive. If you generally knew your stuff, you do well. If you don't, you don't. There are always curveballs in exams, things you didn't study for, things you did which weren't included. That's life.
ReplyDeleteWould you guys have preferred a 3 hour exam so we could write 500 words about plastic? Don't think so.
The structures exam was good in that I think most people knew what to expect. Enough time to comfortably complete the exam also, which wasn't true of the midterm.
Group work. Ugh. Wish I'd been more strategic about it, as spencer says. I guess I didn't feel comfortable taking a leadership position since I felt I didn't know my stuff, and it took me too long to realise that nobody else in my group did either, making knowing irrelevant. We just needed someone to crack the whip. Instead I just built the majority of the model. Last year I managed to work smarter not harder... this semester, not so much.
Also I think a class representative should get a broad range of views before feeding sweeping conclusions to course coordinators / lecturers. Otherwise they're not really a representative, they're just an individual with a title.
Yeah there have been many moments when a textbook would have been good. I bought a copy of an old construction primer (1995) off Trademe for a few bucks which was handy at times. Pretty much the same as what's available online though. In the introduction, by Mark Burry, it says:
ReplyDelete"A handicap to teaching construction technology in New Zealand is the complete absence of textbooks which specifically explore the issues of intermediate and advanced construction theory."
15 years on, are things improved? The BRANZ book is good and was a worthwhile purchase.
I suppose the difficulty in having a good structures textbook is that since our course is quite a pared-down version of previous years, we would perhaps be wanting less material with more detail. Still, I'd be happy to purchase a good general engineering handbook even if it had things we weren't covering in class.
It wouldn't be difficult to throw together a few (correct) worked examples with clearly understandable process/method and have it printed by campus copy. I'd do it if I were remunerated accordingly....
As far as construction there are many industry text books eg Branz has books with just details on membrane roofs or masonry walls, the problem is that there is so much info out there if you know where to look but it is very specific and dry. We had a discussion with a rep for over an hour on silicone and polyurethane sealant but all that info is only really usefully if know the context. The back book shelf in the library has a few manuals and stuff but you have to do a lot of wading. I imagine there must be an introduction to construction principles book somewhere probably a non nz one but the principles should be the same, keep water out, warmth in, something about James Bond and unicorns.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think structures would require one if the tutorials were structured a bit differently. Maybe less doing formulas and more going back over the principles of the formulas. The reality is most if not all wont ever use the raw maths in anger, only tables out of 3604 of Gib bracing. I see the most important part is being able to understand how structure works not necessarily how all the s,w,z,p&ls fit together that’s why engineers were invented we just need to be able to talk to them
did anyone use the online construction primer? All the info from that construction Primer book that Crosby was talking about - all the pages were digitised and put on there - ie details galore for you to use.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.vuw.ac.nz/architecture-onlineteaching/
Or did people forget to look there?
acrosby - I tasked your rep to provide a summary of issues that had she had become aware of, which is what she has done. The things listed include those issues raised by other students to her - so in that sense they are, just as you suggest, representative of issues raised by individual students (as opposed to being representative of a collective position).
ReplyDeleteAs we all know, everyone has a different perception of events, so we, as staff, have to recognise this nature of the feedback, and navigate our way through the various issues that are raised at this level - identifying what needs changing, and to what degree. That is why diverse student feedback is really great.
It has to be said too, that this forum provides a much more democratic venue for constructive dialogue than our usual methods of obtaining feedback. This is understandable when compared with student surveys, but why can't we engage in this type of discussion face-to-face?
This is a real query on my part - as it highlights one of the paradoxes that has struck me about the reflective blogging versus face-to-face tutorials. In the latter, it is very difficult to get students to demonstrate the type of engagement that is very clearly visible in the former - so, while it has always been my ideal to run face-to-face tutorials, I have found that the blogs have actually been, not perfect, but far more effective.
Is this an artifact of the increasingly virtual nature of our communication (blame facebook/twitter), or are there other, more pragmatic aspects at play here?
m-d
For me personally it's easier to articulate written opinions for all the obvious reasons... more time to think about what you're saying, remember the points you were making and why, not falling into a shy or irritated quietness. And, despite best efforts to keep things democratic, face-to-face group discussions can deteriorate into a battle of who talks loudest. In this forum we're all the same volume.
ReplyDeleteBut I do know people who most definitely have the gift of the gab but have trouble articulating their thoughts in writing, whose opinions I would really like to be expressed here. I suppose, ideally, a balance would be good to cater to all people, as I think it's a personal thing rather than a facebook-induced condition.
Also, when engaging in face-to-face discussions with lecturers it can be difficult because it feels unnatural, to begin with anyway, because often there is no pre-existing dialogue, and something about the education style of you-lecturer me-student puts up a barrier to free communication. So I would feel comfortable talking to Simon Twose about course-related stuff because we had 6 hours a week of studio banter, but less so with Geoff because I'm pretty sure he doesn't know who I am.
I think Amanda has pretty much summed up the situation. There is certainly some reticence for most on speaking up in lectures or tutorials and possibly for fear of looking foolish. It might just come down to breaking down that student-lecturer barrier somehow. Hopefully it isn't a technology focus thing.
ReplyDeleteSuggestions;
Each lecturer has meets each student briefly at the start of the year with a quick "hello ?, my name is ?, congratulations on getting in to the second year. Feel free to see me." Problems are it's time consuming for the lecturer.
How about a sort of speed dating night at the start of the year, where not only do we meet the lecturers/tutors but we also meet our other second years as that is equally as important.
Of course you have still got to get people to come, and those reluctant to speak up in class as probably just as reluctant to come to something like that...
I'm pretty sure that it's frowned upon for staff to be speed-dating their students :)
ReplyDeletehaha speed dating aside Amanda and Spencer raise some good points.
ReplyDeleteMichael it seems as though you are suggesting that lack of class discussions is a recent development? Was it much different when you were in Uni?
Guy- I used the primer a few times, but I think I would have referred to it more if I had a paper copy. Perhaps you can give an option for students to purchase a paper copy much like the BRANZ house building guide.
ReplyDeleteYou're completely correct of course - things were just the same when I was a student here (despite classes being twice as big now)...
ReplyDeleteHaving larger class sizes would only seem to compound the issue. I think the lack of participation in a large class is due impart to the psychological phenomenon Diffusion of Responsibility. Where by large groups of people feel less responsible to engage with a task because to some degree they expect someone else to take up that responsibility. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility
ReplyDeleteI think small group tutorials would be the only way to intiate a discussion in person, but probably not the most practical to implement. Also then your discussion are limited to the view points of the select few in the tutorial.
The blog on the other hand allows us to get that small group security but also allows us to discuss within a much larger group then possible in person. The more ideas the richer the dialogue gets. It's a great assignment.
I think people who are hesitant to discuss are those who might feel arguing is a personal matter. Perhaps if students names were not listed. Maybe students select a pen name to author their blogs and comments under. I think in this way students wouldn't feel shy about disagreeing or expressing more radical ideas.
It were different when I was a student. Used to live in cardboard box in middle of road...
ReplyDelete...one thing we used to do all the time when i was a student in Auckland, was to go to the pub - the whole studio class - every single Friday, but especially after a Crit. It really worked to get feedback flowing!
I know I should be all PC and say that i don't condone alcohol etc - but THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT THE CONVIVIAL RELAXATION FORMAT - whoops, unintentional caps lock there - there is some good in that relaxed chat format. No guarantee that :
A) anything would change, and
B) anyone would remember on Monday morning, but it was good to get things off your chest
I have typically gone off to the pub once or twice a term with some of the students - and even foolishly agreed to buy everyone a drink one year (can't afford to do that with a class of 180...) but its a tradition that i think we should be more stringent about. I don't think I went to the pub once so far this year with the students - we must rectify that next term.
Lecturers speed-dating students? I'll refrain from comment on that....
Cardboard box? You were lucky.
ReplyDeleteI live in a rolled up newspaper inside a septic tank. Have to get up each morning 6 o'clock clean the newspaper then head on down to work at uni for 16 hours weekin-weekout...
Man if that wasn't a Monty Python reference then I just made a much bigger fool out of myself then was hoping to.
Heading to the pub after a crit is vital and necessary to maintain a healthy academic life. I think we all just need to agree on the aforementioned pub and there shouldn't be much trouble getting us there.
Beer most definitely helps. Probably not so great to blog drunk though.
ReplyDeleteIt can be a bit hit-and-miss to organise drinks and things over the holidays but yeah, once we're back in class I think a regular mass migration to the pub would be good.
what design school needs is a decent student pub then maybe we would get a real education
ReplyDeletewe can't just let the conversation stop there, on the quest for a pub! More please, this is good !
ReplyDeleteYou're right. We haven't resolved which pub is the best for discussing these things.
ReplyDeleteI think Havana's atmosphere is most conducive to chatter. Southern Cross is able to accomodate more people though, so it's also a possibility for those post-crit studio swills.
Personally I think we should just create more excuses to drink wine in the atrium.
yes, more wine in the atrium.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget those fruit platters after evening lecturers, I'd have scurvy otherwise.
ReplyDelete